Ray Boltz Comes out…
Just came across the news today.
Ray Boltz was an artist well known in my church circle growing up. I think the very first drama I saw performed was “Watch the Lamb”.
I’ve NEVER been a southern gospel fan, but his music was enjoyable. I used to sing “The Anchor Holds” as a “special” in my old church all the time. I grew tired of the song, but the congregation loved it. The song kind of takes on another meaning now.
Here’s the news article if your interested in checking it out.
Check out this blog for some interesting conversation on the matter.
This is a very difficult issue to discuss. The church as a whole has taken a very strong and unkind position on the matter in my opinion…at least in our recent past. It is encouraging to hear and read words of love and support for our brothers/sisters struggling with this issue rather then Judgement and condemnation.
I’ll say this. It’s easy to make comments or statements about people (especially if you don’t know them). How are they living? Is it sin is it not sin? Will they go to hell if they don’t change? Can a homosexual be a Christian? It’s easy to take sides. It’s easy to make theological arguments and throw around proof texts. It’s much harder to love and to understand.
So I’ve focused my attention, my energies on the later, loving and understanding. Where will it shake out in the end, I don’t know, but I believe showing people that they still count and that Jesus loves them can’t be wrong.
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It is sad that satan sets out to destroy. He knows our weaknesses. If we aren’t set free from the strongholds in our lives we give the devil acsess to those areas. We have to be delivered spiritually from bondage in order to move on and not “hate” ourselves. Everyone has there battles. It’s what you do with them that our
gracious Lord wants us to choose. Do we live in bondage and eventually give in to the sinful nature or do we get deliverance and get set free from the captivity that surrounds us. No, we are not to judge others. We are to pray for others to have their blinders taken off so that they are aware of what satan is trying to do to them. We are all in a spiritual war. It’s as real as we are. The Lord loves Ray just as much now as He always has. His heart is crying out for him to recognize that he has been deceived. We all are deceived in certain ways. Satan is smart. But, he is not God. God can heal, deliver, and set free the captive!!!!!!!!
Obviously Ray has been blinded by sin. I find it insulting for him to say that this is the way God made him. How is what he is doing any different than a heterosexual man engaging in any other form of perversion. He has made God out to be the author of sin-God forbid-
Ray needs to fall on his face, repent of his sin and turn to the Lord. Until he does that, he isn’t serving the God I serve-he is serving the God of this world.
Brian/Wendy – Thanks for stopping by and taking the time to make a comment. I do enjoy reading what other people have to say about the matter.
Brian – I understand your frustration with the situation, frustration with Sin, but the absence of compassion is conspicuously missing from your remarks. I guess I just feel that language like that will not do any good if our goal, our hope is the restoration/reconciliation of Ray’s relationship with God.
Wendy – I found the interview that Ray gave about his struggle very interesting as it relates to your comments about “bondage” & “strongholds”. He lived pretty much a normal life, married and had kids. He admitted to loving his wife – yet all the while dealt with this inner turmoil, this feeling that he was living a lie. At one point, he just got tired of the struggle and so he just gave in. To me that is the saddest part of the story.
I think all of us have things in our life we struggle with. Call them what you will “Bondage” or “Stronghold”. But parts of our life that we hold onto – parts that we cannot completely give to Jesus – or he never completely takes away. Some people are fortunate enough to experience a break through or release from their struggle – “deliverance” as you say- but others continue to struggle their entire lives. I’ll confess, Struggling sucks… But I take comfort in knowing that it’s a Holy struggle, it’s a struggle that’s worth the cost, it’s a struggle thats rewards far outweighs it’s loss.
I’m sad, I’m grieved that Ray gave up on his struggle, that he quit. I’m sad and grieved that he took an either/or approach – that he ended his struggle on his terms instead of trusting and relying on the grace and goodness of God. I fully understand that it’s not an easy struggle to stand up against, but I have to believe God is able. But I’ve not given up hope. God loves Ray, God will continue to call Ray and work in his life. I hope Ray will one day soon pick up the struggle once again. And I hope God sends people into Ray’s life that will help him to do so.
The Christian World seems to be hit by this kind of news everyday at the moment. First, Todd Bentley, then Michael Guglielmucci and now this.
We need to pray for them and for ourselves, that as we so easily over-focus on other people’s sins which become public knowledge, we don’t forget that all sin is sin in God’s eyes, and that we will one day have to give account of the things we did and not what someone else did. In other words, let us focus all our energy in growing our own character and in praying for this people and ourselves. Judgement belongs to God.
http://www.ransom33.wordpress.com
it’s never out of line to call sin sin. God is very clear on the matter. we can speak the truth in love…being clear where God is clear and loving our neighbor at the same time.
Wow… I just went to log onto a charity blog that I volunteer with and- I come across hate from that part of our society which preaches love. Growing up in THE church (not some crap made up by a bunch of nuts talking in tongues in a school library somewhere), I was taught that Jesus preached love and compassion. I see NONE of that here, just the fear and hate that the devil himself is known for. Shame on you all- there’s a special place in hell for those who hate. I’m pretty sure if you check the teachings of our Savior Jesus Christ, you’ll find him calling for love for your brother who is going through a difficult time…
B
I pray that God would draw him out of this sin and back to the cross.
Bill – I agree with you that there’s been a lot of hate and fear on the topic, but think you over reacting to the comments you’re reading here so far. And if you want people to seriously consider your critique of others love-less language… I suggest you practice it yourself.
Thank you for your sensitive post about Ray Boltz. I grew up in the church, but have recently decided that I cannot continue to participate in the “we’re right, they’re wrong” mentality.
Christians have changed their views on a lot of things over the years (slavery, women’s rights, contraception, disciplining children, etc). I am hoping that in 50 years, people will look back and realize that they are using 3 or 4 texts (which I don’t think “prove” homosexuality is a sin) to condemn a whole segment of the population.
Are we reading the same comments?
I see no hate or fear here; in fact, expressing disappointment in someone’s behavior shows that at least on some level you care about them as a person and in this case as a Christian as well.
I don’t believe it’s our responsibility to pass judgment on the condition of a man’s heart – but we do our own hearts a disservice if we cannot discuss this or similar situations and learn from them.
May God give you His perfect Peace, Ray.
Good for Ray. How brave it was for him to acknowledge who he is knowing that the very people who pay his paycheck hate him over it.
Rich,
You were correct about the saddest part of all of this—Ray Boltz gave up on his struggle and just gave up on God…But based on my readings of others comments, not just from your site but across the web…Ray was probably unable to receive positive help in his struggle…with so many people screaming Hell, Damnation and Repent, I’m sure Ray was unable to find those that would fight the good fight of faith with him. If my memory of the Word of God serves me right, doesn’t it state that if you break one law you are guilty of breaking them all…therefore, if a person lies, he is guilty of all…could I go out on a limb and say if you steal some gum from the store you are guilty of being a homosexual? Is that a bit radical…My point is this…in Christian society today, we have put degrees of severity on sin, that one sin is worse than others and that some are more acceptable than others…but truth is, a sin is a sin, it is missing the mark, falling short, not reaching the prize…therefore if its because you are attracted to the same sex, you are lying to your family, underage drinking, or even stealing a piece of gum from the store you are not where you need to be with God and you have to work on it…
Anyways, just my two cents to share in the blogging world of the web
Love is what God has taught us each in his word, and yes we are to love the sinner but also we are to hate the sin and not embrace it.
Ray my heart and prayers go out to you and your family, truly you have been decieved by satan.
God is yet stronger by far then this enemy and his weapons so I pray that Ray you will submit your all to the Lord and conquer this sin with God as your leader and saviour.
Jesus will return soon to take us all to our new home in Heaven and I pray that you will be prepared and that Jesus will not find you with your back turned to Him.
We all struggle daily with sin but do we submit to it, prayerfully not by the grace of God.
The Bible is the truth and it is not to be read in pieces and portions.
Scripture says that homosexual acts are sin and cannot enter the gates of Heaven.
Nothing that is sin will enter.
I believe that homosexuality is a sin. But so is anger, hatred, unforgiveness, pride, etc. One sin isn’t “bigger” than the others. The only topics that Jesus seemed to hit on more here on earth were love, pride/self-righteousness, and unforgiveness.
I don’t like the hate in the church community right now. We DO need to love someone regardless of their sin, but not accept the sin itself. I think that the Lord looks down from heaven and dislikes our shunning of certain sins, but not others, just as much as He dislikes the actual sins that we are so loathe to deal with in other Christians.
Something that struck me was how Boltz talked about how he loved his wife and that’s how he was able to have relations with her. And although I believe in passion, the main “force” behind a marriage’s sexual union SHOULD be genuine affection and love. It appears to me that Boltz let his mind overrule his spirit in this matter.
It is hard to conquer a stronghold in your life. I just wonder why he finally quit struggling against it after all of this time. I have my own strongholds, but I don’t make excuses for it. I try my best to not let them “win” in my life.
Most of all, I don’t agree with someone having a platform when there is sin in their life. But I also don’t like the black-balling that occurs when such things are found out. Quite honestly the church is a mess. Sigh.
Dear Brothers and Sisters in Christ:
Christ never put his stamp on ignorance. He came to open up our eyes as we take up his cross and follow him, at whatever cost, daily. It was George Bernard Shaw, I think, who said “The truly amazing thing about Christians is they think they can follow Jesus’ teachings and not change anything.”
If you believe that you are better, or more holy, than any other soul seeking out its truth, I might humbly suggest that you are much more like the goats, wandering this way and that, consuming trash, than sheep seeking the higher and better way.
And I am not casting names, for there is love in my heart, but in my ministry I have seen the high cost of this historical “blind spot.” I myself might once have said, “I find it insulting for him to say that this is the way God made him,” but guess what? He DID, and I can no longer doubt that. Can you say “arrogant”? Do you know why you find that “insulting?” Because its truth calls upon you to grow larger than yourself for one critical moment, to actually GROW in your faith, instead of assuming the know-it-all smugness of a Pharisee. Fighting words? Only if your eyes are closed to all alternative possibilities.
Listen: I understand that anything other than black and white can be distressing. It would be nice, in a way, if evil wore a sign and wore black robes for easy identification, but it does not. Come on people, you know this.
But if you think about it, you clinging to your beliefs (and hatemongering is all it is, plain and simple). Strong words? I suppose so, but the Lord calls upon us to speak the truth to one another, humbly and as best we can, with an open heart.
“By their fruits you shall know them.” I have seen beautiful young men take their own lives after being told by their Christian parents, “Son, we love you so much that your Mother and I can have nothing to do with you, because that would be condoning your lifestyle.” I have ministered to many God-filled men and women who happen to choose partners of the same sex for comfort and delight in their life journeys. But you know what? Say what you will: I know love when I see it, and commitment, and I would say Get yourself to your own mirror, quick, before you take on the task of “fixing” other people and their relationships.
Look, we all fall short of the glory of God. But we are NOT God. Remember that before you open your mouths and spew out spiritual acid upon good people you really know nothing about. Take that righeous energy and set aside your blinders, and you might be surprised at what you see.
Finally, the pious posting about “deceit” adds ZERO to meaningful dialogue. In my experience, it is deceivers who focus on deceit. It just seems so inappropriate to use that “know-it-all” phrase (and please understand, I am using this “in your face” language intentionally, because whether or not you may be aware, there is quite likely a homosexual person in your life, and you might likely appreciate them and their contributions.
You feel backed up by certain vocal people who would counsel you that Christ would have you look down upon this group of people. But in the Bible I read every day, Christ directs us not to judge.
Did you hear that? Think about it.
Did he say, Do not judge, except for homos? He did not.
Open up your hearts. For God’s sake, the human heart is too tender to withstand such systematic and continued assaults on human dignity.
I am no better than anyone else, and no one else better than I.
I can only pray that by throwing this pebble of thought into the collective pool I might touch a heart instead of reinforce fortifications of ugly self-righteousness.
I am seeking only to serve. I am humble.
And I thank you, Jesus, for that great gift you gave us upon the cross. Honestly, I sometimes have to weep when I think about it, because I personally believe that this ultimate gift was made all the more golden because he was very, VERY scared as he saw the whole ordeal before him.
And I know that none of us have it easy, really. No one “gets a free ride.” That is inconsistent with growth.
It just occurs to me to ask, in the most loving spirit I can, are those who speak in terms of moral rectitude and condemnation of men who love men and women who love women (and my experience will not allow me to believe, for one moment, that the love is not real), to that extent diminishing the Great Gift our savior gave to us?
Just remember: His cry to “forgive them, for they know not what they do” might well apply to “us”, as well as “them,” no matter whom these “fill in the blank” terms might be applied at the moment.
The only real safety for any of us ever, really, is in love. And that is much more about opening then closing.
God bless each and every one of us. You are all so beautiful.
Respectfully and with deepest gratitude,
Paul
WOW, Life would be so much better if we would stop trying to be God and do away with the judgements. This is an anointed man who is the SAME today as he was when we first heard and fell in love with his music the only difference now is that we know a little something more about a person who admits that this has always been as long as he remembers and wow so now we judge, we condemn, we bash, etc. I wonder what would become of you if we knew more details about your life, your secrets, your struggles, your TRUE self other than what is displayed outwardly. Its such a shame how we say we want people to be transparent but really we cannot handle the truth and its so clear that this particular statement has a condition tied to it. We’re is the unconditional love? Im so disappointed by some of the responses of people who claim to be “Christians” are we really being Christ-like. I say to my brother Ray Boltz and anyone else, keep your head up and keep doing what YOU feel you need to do to BE FREE!!!
we’ve had a long drawn out word war over at between two worlds about this subject. i find this issue very difficult. i look at ’sin’ not as a shall/shall not from God just for the hell of it (pun intended) but as an instruction against consequences. i’m finding myself coming down now on the side that allows these relationships. i have a very hard time relating to someone waving a book and saying something is ‘bad’ simply because ‘God says so.’ God doesn’t make silly rules just to test us; even in the garden, there were consequences to eating the apple – it wasn’t just an ‘i dare ya’ moment. and issues like this force us all to look at our sin ‘rankings’ that we keep in our own heads, where all of your sins are near the top in terms of how bad they are and mine are down in the noise. some say this issue reveals ray’s hypocrisy; actually, it reveals the hypocrisy in all of us.
mike rucker
fairburn, georgia, usa
mikerucker.wordpress.com
It’s interesting the route the conversation is going here. It’s almost as if we’ve forgotten about Ray Boltz the person and what he’s going through right now.
And Instead we’re focusing more on the issue of how as Christians we address/respond to homosexuals. Maybe you could even broaden that and say sin in general.
What’s obvious is that the church is very divided on the issue. I think a lot of progress has been made, but we’ve still got a long ways to go.
Calling Sin what it is always provokes a strong reaction. Hating homosexuality is NOT the same thing as hating someone who lives a homosexual lifestyle. Hating alcholism is not the same as hating an alcoholic. The point is – the WORD teaches that God calls homosexuality (the living in – acting out – lifestyle) a sin – and HE is the one who sacrificed His own SON for sinners, whether they practice homosexuality, gambling, gluttony, lying, etc.
NO SIN IS WORSE THAN ANY OTHER – there is no grading or measuring at the Cross. The problem with some sinful ways are the public example or the resulting ramifications of the choices we make. Wanting to kill someone is as bad as killing someone according to scripture – but the difference to others is our outward action.
Hating Ray Boltz is not going to minister to him or anyone else. Judging Ray Boltz will only bring judgment on ourselves. GOD IS JUDGE – not us. If we are going to decry sin, then let’s start working on our OWN sinful hearts and sinful habits and pray for repentance in our own lives first. Let GOD take care of the rest.
Go check this out… Some very good perspective.
http://www.ragamuffinsoul.com/?p=5823
Good Stuff.
Yes, Jesus taught the ultimate love and compassion. The Bible also teaches that if someone is continuing in a life of sin, they are to be “cut off” from among the people with the hope they will return to the faith.
The modern church has failed miserably. The truth is that Christians CAN have demons. There IS a demon of homosexuality. and yes, we CAN (and should) cast out demons… Unfortunately, finding anyone who has a clue about the process is difficult if not impossible.
My heart breaks for Ray and others who have never been offered the hope of overcoming chronic spiritual issues caused by demons. We can be victorious over them, but only by the blood of Jesus! see hbcdelivers.org (but even they have their own issues, just don’t get caught up in them. They are the only ones I know with an effective deliverance ministry!)
Wow! I’ve got nothing to say about that. Maybe a mute demon has a hold of my tongue
quite a bit of conversation on this one, eh? remarkable
that ragamuffinsoul blog is pretty excellent; good link.
this whole business of discussing (semi) public figures is a delicate one, as followers of Jesus, isn’t it?
most of us would think twice before commenting in public about a family member’s or friend’s struggles, I imagine. and what we’d say or how we’d say it would be tempered by our relationship to the real human being, and the impact our words would have on the relationship.
but we feel (often, it seems) that we have license for what would otherwise be called gossip when we talk about public figures. because somehow the fact that they have public lives changes the rules. you know, the speak face to face, if you don’t have something nice to say, don’t say it at all, those sorts of rules.
how easy it is to take issue with someone (in this case, Mr. Boltz) and share our opinions with others, without addressing them directly to the person with whom we have concerns. makes it so easy to critique; there is no cost to us relationally (well, I’m sure there is a “soul cost” but the invoices aren’t as easy to read). and of course it’s easy for love to be absent from the conversation, because the love we have towards public figures is so much more abstract, impersonal, and therefore weak. Add the anonymity and distance of the internet into the equation, and wow, look out.
all that to say, Rich, I think your approach of leaning heavy on the love pedal is probably the only healthy approach when difficult news connected to a public figure’s life hits the scene. whether it’s a pop starlet or a presidential candidate or an actor or an athlete or a CCM artist. healthy for us humans with hearts and minds and voices and keyboards. healthy for those in the midst of difficulty.
maybe if we could learn to practice generosity in our public and private responses to these kinds of news items, it would create some breathing room for all concerned to hear the voice of the creator and re-creator of the universe. easier said than done, of course, and I’m as guilty as the next blog reader, I’m sure. Lord have mercy.
This is evidence of an non-transformed life in Christ – there is no way that a true believer can remain in sin (1 John) and say that they are saved – the Bible is clear – pray for this man to be SAVED – and delivered from this heinous life – God didn’t make him this way – this is a choice of lifestyle – and may God deliver this DEAD MAN from sin – and may he REPENT of the damage he has done in the name of the risen LORD JESUS!!!!
[...] Ray Boltz Comes out… Just came across the news today. Ray Boltz was an artist well known in my church circle growing up. I think the very [...] [...]
I’m finding I have more compassion and understanding for “sinners” then “Christians” after I read a comment like that.
Church choral music will never be the same.
God loves us all, but He absolutely DOES NOT condone sin of ANY KIND. People who think that they can be gay and still be a Christian are deceived. This is so condradictory that its not even funny! A homosexual Christian??? Are you kidding me?? What is this world coming to? God loves these people just like He does everyone else, but these people are living in sin and they think its okay!! Go to the scriptures and read about how God dealt with Sodom and Gomorrah. Apparently that chapter gets conveniently overlooked by the gay community. I’m not a hater.. please don’t perceive me in that way. But I am, however, fed up with the church sitting back and condoning this type of lifestyle when the scriptures clearly tell us that this is WRONG! I’m not perfect, nor do I claim to be. I mess up on a daily basis. But I ALWAYS am quick to repent and get on the right track because I am AWARE that I am doing wrong. Homosexuals, on the other hand, are not aware and think that their lifestyle is fine and that God loves them regardless. Well, yeah, God does love them, but that alone doesn’t save them! People are not “born gay” and that really disgusts me for him to even imply that. But that’s the lie the devil feeds to all homosexual people. We were each made in the IMAGE of GOD– so the next time you sit back and let someone get away of claiming they were “born” into this sinful lifestyle, reassure them that nothing could be further from the truth! People are so crazy to believe this!! God loves people who claim to be homosexual, but He does NOT love their sin, and until they repent, they, along with so many other sinners out there, will not enter into Heaven. It’s that simple. Lord, help keep the righteous strong as we try to endure in these last days.. and please speak to Ray Boltz’ heart, that he will wake up from this cloud of confusion and turn from his sinful ways– He has way too powerful of a ministry to throw it away now.
Rich…I appreciate your heart.
I find myself grieved as I read so much of this. Ray Boltz has been used by God to touch the lives of countless men and women in this country and abroad. I can truly say I can NOT relate to or understand the struggle of same-sex attraction, but I CAN relate to the overall stuggle that true Christians face as we strive to follow Christ. I have come to realize over the course of my life, that my lies, my lust, my laziness, my double-mindedness…all are offensive to a perfectly holy God. That is exactly why Paul speaks of being “crucified with Christ” (Gal 2:17-21) so that Christ can live through us.
It is a great blessing when I meet those who have been delivered completely from desires that draw them away into sin. I love to hear those testimonies…but I also realize that many of us must fight those desires until the day we die. I also must confess that I once would have said that people could not be born gay…but I’ve come to realize there is a problem with that argument. We are FALLEN MANKIND. We are ALL born into sin. Through the sin of Adam, we are ALL cursed by sin and born into it. Now…what form that sin might take in you could be very different than the form it takes in me. In my natural bent, I really like women. I love their form, their shape, and their nature; I have to battle with myself regularly to keep my eyes on Christ. By my nature…I was born a womanizer. But I can not say…”I was born a womanizer, so that’s okay”…and just give in to it. There are churches all across the world that are filled with people who are born gossips…born liars…born thieves. You get my point. The argument that “I was born this way” doesn’t hold water. We are all born with sin, but we must fight against it as long as we have breath…IF we are a disciple of Christ.
I love Ray Boltz and his music. It has ministered to me on numerous occasions…and I believe it still will. My heart is heavy for him and many others who feel they have to just “give in” to this issue and stop fighting. Fight On!!
1 Timothy 6:12 “Fight the good fight of faith, lay hold on eternal life, to which you were also called and have confessed the good confession in the presence of many witnesses.”
I am so praying for Ray. My heart breaks. That is why it is important that we walk by faith and not by sight! 2 Corinthians 5:7 “For we walk by faith, not by sight:”
Now, I know we all have our struggles with sin but, God is clear that if you are saved, you will have conviction of your sin. He will chatise you when you do wrong.
1 John 1:5-8 “This then is the message which we have heard of him, and declare unto you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all. If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth: But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship with another, and the blood of Christ his Son cleaneth us from all sin. If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.”
Now how is that harsh? If Ray is saying, “I have fellowship with Him” but continues to live this lifestyle that surely God frowns upon, then he is deceiving himself. You cannot say that you are a Christian and continue to live a life full of sin. Live in the world and not feel guilty about it. That is what bothers me with this.
Now, I love Ray. I loved his songs but, this is what the bible says. God loves Ray..like he loves ALL of us..I am just a sinner saved by grace. HOwever, when I sin..I KNOW IT..God himself DOES deals with me. Sometimes I sin and do not know it..but I pray that God searches me so that if I do..I can repent..and make things right. I’m not perfect. I still have this sinful nature..but that certainly does not give me the right to go out and do whatever I want and say heck with it.
Life is about choices. God gives us freewill but that is why it is so important to remain in His word and understand what He against. It is a dangerous ground to even say that “God made me this way” No, God did NOT make him that way. We ARE born in sin..but we CHOOSE to sin. We choose to either accept or reject the Word of God.
I know that some of the comments here really seem harsh. But when you get into the Word of God and really study and understand what God says about sin..then you will understand that it’s not harsh at all but it’s something to help us so we can maintain a life that can be full of blessings!
Well, I will continue to pray for Ray. I will pray for his family because I know they are hurting by all this.
God Bless You all!
This is why I am so weary of today’s church. People can’t wait to condemn and then they vomit all kinds of verses sending the person to hell. Work out your own salvation with fear and trembling, stop pointing fingers, you’re not the ones who control eternity. There for the grace of God go you. Worry about your own relationship with God.
[...] of Ray Boltz (and more videos here): Looking around on blogs, plenty of Christians have been very judgmental about his coming-out [...]
I made these comments on someone else’s blog this morning and thought it applied here as well…
I think a lot of Christians struggle with understanding the homosexual lifestyle. And I don’t think our faith in general, does a good job addressing all the questions homosexuality raises.
One example raised in a comment above: If we’re all created in God’s image how can someone be born gay?
Because we don’t understand it, because it doesn’t fit neatly into our Faith box – we fear it – we dismiss it – we condemn it – we villify it.
That’s much easier to do then to struggle with it, struggle through it. We so much want things to be black and white, right or wrong. We hate the grey areas.
Yet we refuse to recognize that Jesus lived and moved and worked in the very grey areas we’re so afraid of. I think the heart of the Kingdom is smack dab in the middle of these grey areas.
There is hope though. There are Christians that are willing to take risk, willing to love. Willing to wrestle with their faith. Hopefully their voice will rise and one day drown out the hate and venomous language we here too often today.
“Let he/she who is without sin, cast the first stone.” Non of us are without sin. A sin is a sin no matter how small or how big. We tend to judge fellow Christians on the enormousy of the sin. The Bible tells us that homosexuality is a sin, however so is telling little white lies to “protect a loved one”. It’s all in the interpritation of the Word of God. The Bible says there is “just judgement”, however, to justly judge someone else I believe we should look at our own lives and judge ourselves. Are we worthy to judge others if there are even the smallest infractions we’ve committed? I don’t think so. I believe through the grace of God, we will ALL will meet in Heaven one day. Ray Boltz did not deny Jesus and did not deny his Christianity, he confessed his sexuality. I don’t see anywhere in any of the articles I’ve read where Ray has stated he is a “practicing homosexual”. He simply stated he does not feel comfortable practicing heterosexuality, when it is not what he believes he is. Am I disappointed? Yes, I am disappointed in the circumstance. Does it make me disrespect him? No. He stopped living a lie, which is also a sin. Look at others who have fallen short, and have been forgiven by the Christian community including Jimmy Swagert, Jim Bakker, Amy Grant, Michael English. Were their sins any greater than the sexuality of Ray Boltz? God would answer “no”. Did they confess and receive forgiveness by God. Yes. Is it for us to judge whether God will forgive Ray Boltz. Never. I pray for his family. And I pray that the Holy Spirit will give Ray Boltz strength to overcome this tremendous revolation about himself. Will I judge his decision to “come out”? NO, I will not. There are many gay men and women in the ministry that never confess who they are. Many of them feel in their soul they are homosexuals but have made the decision to follow Jesus and do not practice their sexuality. Let’s just continue to pray for Ray Boltz and make a conscious decision not to judge him harshly.
I have read through these comments and the links. The vast majority of these posts scream hypocrisy at a level that is amazing. Is this the Christianity that is being preached now days? Does anyone remember a little lesson about “He who is without sin cast the first stone? This is the very reason I no longer attend church.
Steve,
I don’t know if your “vomiting verses” comment was intended toward me at all, but I would like to comment on it.
I am INCREDIBLY aware of my own sin, and I grieve over it more than I could ever express in this blog, because I know that just like David said to the Lord in Psalm 51:4 “Against You, You only, have I sinned, And done this evil in Your sight— That You may be found just when You speak, And blameless when You judge.”
I completely agree that we must work out our own salvation, and there is too much hateful judgmentalism spewed in these arenas, but does that mean we abandon His word and insight? We could all sit down and type out OUR ideas, OUR views, OUR thoughts…but at the end of the day, what have we accomplished? We must look to the only source of truth we have. GOD’s word. MY thoughts and opinions don’t really matter, but God’s thoughts matter beyond all else.
I would much rather have someone disagree with me and argue their point with scripture, because that is our only objective source as a believer. Why is that so hard for us to see…if it is a Christian issue, it’s a Word of God issue.
Rich…I say again, I really appreciate your heart. I wanted to comment on the “made in the image of God” issue. The only place we see it written that man was made in the image of God is three verses in the book of Genesis. If we read it clearly…in the context of ALL scripture, Adam and Eve were made in the image of God…but WE are made in the image of Adam and Eve…AFTER the fall of mankind into sin. There are numerous references to “corruptible man” after the fall…and that obviously doesn’t line up with the image of God. He is not corruptible. In the New Testament, we see that Christ is the image of God…but not us. We are fallen and hopelessly sinful apart from Christ…He alone is our righteousness and hope. I think we often do not realize the devastating effects that Adam’s sin brought on the world…and into our own make-up. Romans 5:12-21 sheds some really good light on the issue of fallen man.
All that to say…we MUST struggle and wrestle with these issues…but we must also consult God’s word and seek His face and His heart as we do so.
Let us not forget another great truth…from the Word…Jesus gave us an 11th commandment. John 13:34-35 “A new commandment I give to you, that you love one another; as I have loved you, that you also love one another. By this all will know that you are My disciples, if you have love for one another.”
In reading these comments, I find some that speak out more than others, both good and bad. Ray Boltz is simply the latest rallying point for both sides to point at – and yet, in all the talk, in all the hate or love, it always seems that we miss some things.
Why is it we are so quick to quote scripture to point out that homosexuality is a sin, but so quick to run away from it for other things, such as greed, or lust confused as love? How is it that Ray, and the millions like him are living their lives in sin, while those who hord money and power, or those that break up their marriage to “follow their hearts” are not looked upon with nearly the same level of distain?
There are very thinly veiled refrences to homosexuality in scripture, if you go back to the old texts, and not the “rehashed” ones given to us by “modern day scholars.” However, ther is nothing insignificant or thinly veiled about the teachings of marriage, or giving, or against greed and lust. And yet, we forgive our brothers and sisters who break those covenents, and make excuses for them, while most of us do nothign but spew vile hatred at those who call themselves homosexuals.
I have seen these teaching take their toll – I have witnessed how the teachings of hate have driven men and women I know who cannot escape their feelings any more than Mr. Boltz drive themselves slowly insane, even in one case to the point of suicide.
Remember what He said – “Thy will be done.” Do NOT pretend to know His will – he taught you to love your neighbor as your self. He taught forgiveness and understanding. It is the HUMAN church that has taught hate – not Jesus.
He would be ashamed of all of us, I think. He would throw us all out of his church, as he did with the moneychangers in the Temple. But He would also forgive us, every single one of us, and welcome us back – why can we not do the same?
Wraithfive – Well said.
And all you scrambling through your lexicons now wanting to disprove something he said… You missed the point.
Very well said. We must be willing to look at all sin…including our own, whatever it might be… through the same glasses.
If you want to talk sin, let us begin with the sin of Capitalism and the chances of a rich man getting into the Kingdom of Heaven, or all of the overweight people who are sinners, or the people who practice Yoga who are sinners. I don’t believe that Jesus cared about homosexuality, otherwise when he broke it down to the only requirements to enter the Kingdom, it would have been one of them, but instead:
Now a man came up to Jesus and asked, “Teacher, what good thing must I do to get eternal life?” 17″Why do you ask me about what is good?” Jesus replied. “There is only One who is good. If you want to enter life, obey the commandments.” 18″ which ones?” the man inquired. 19Jesus replied, ” ‘Do not murder, do not commit adultery, do not steal, do not give false testimony, honor your father and mother,’ and ‘love your neighbor as yourself. ” 20″All these I have kept,” the young man said. “What do I still lack?” 21Jesus answered, “If you want to be perfect, go, sell your possessions and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me.” 22When the young man heard this, he went away sad, because he had great wealth.
Matthew 19:16-22
Wow, what a great site. I must say, I love Ray Boltz and his music has helped me through many a struggle in my journey. I, like Philip above, have issues with lust. I struggle, just as Ray Boltz and the rest of us struggle. I’m a sinner, just as everyone else is.
I’m not quite sure what touched me so much about Ray’s story. I guess it’s because my struggle against lust and my issues has been much like his…a continual up and down, begging for “relief” from the pain and pressure of it all and not getting it. I guess, like Paul said, the bottom line is God said His grace is sufficient…for all of us.
One other comment, if I may. I find it somewhat disconcerting when people “snipe” about how everyone who is on the “negative” side of this issue is so hypocritical, unloving, etc… Jesus didn’t tell the woman at the well that having had 5 husbands and living with the current one was “ok” just because he knew that some people would think him hypocritical. Sin is sin, regardless of what type. I think the main area of concern that I see is that it appears that some people are trying to make homosexuality “ok with God”…when the bible makes it clear…it’s not…JUST like all the other sins.
Just my 2.5 cents. I love each of you…and pray each of us remember to love as we continue to “work out” our “own salvation with fear and trembling” as we continue down the road on our your journey.
First of all, homosexuality is a SIN….God calls it an ABOMINATION!!! That’s God’s word, not man’s, so if we humans have a problem with calling homosexuality a sin, then we need to take that up with God himself. We are to speak God’s word as He lays it out in His Word, The Bible, and not “sugarcoat” it, “tone it down” or however you want to say it just because people are offended. To do so, is to cheapen God’s Word.
Second, homosexuality is no worse sin than lying, cheating, stealing, adultery, gossip, and whatever else the Bible calls sin.
The thing that really disappoints me is that Ray has ACCEPTED his sin of homosexuality instead of allowing God to change him. God CANNOT and WILL NOT create a person to be a liar, an adulterer, a thief, or a homosexual. We sin because Adam and Eve sinned.
Ray needs to quit listening to the lies of Satan and seek after God and HIS Truth…..and that TRUTH is that God will not condone his life of homosexuality. Anyone who says they are a Christian but yet WILLFULLY lives in sin is NOT a Christian….the Bible plainly states that. 1 John 2:4 says, “4The one who says, “I have come to know Him,” and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him;” Also Hebrews 10:26 says ” 26For if we go on sinning willfully after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins,”…..I’m not making a judgment call here because only God can judge Ray’s heart, but Ray needs to re-evaluate his spiritual condition. You read it right here….those who willfully continue in sin is NOT saved….this is not man’s words but God’s Word.
I totally agree with Susan… she is straight forward and to the point. That’s exactly how God always speaks to my heart.
God’s not finished with Ray Boltz. I truly believe that Ray is going to be delivered from this and that he is going to have a POWERFUL testimony of redemption and healing.
Until you have wrestled with same sex attraction/homosexuality……you people have no idea how your condemnation, your preaching to Ray Boltz….your “get back to God” attitude comes across……If you walked in his shoes and have experienced what he has endured…….you probably would be a little more compassionate….
I was/am very saddened by the news of Ray Boltz’ coming out. After reading the transript of the interview in which this took place, I’m saddened more, and I will pray fervently for Ray and his family. Especially his family.
I’ve also done a lot of reading on this site, and others, and am dismayed by the attitudes of so-called Christians! Being a Christian means believing that the Holy Bible is the true word of God, and, as such, is infallible!
“But now I am writing you that you must not associate with anyone who calls himself a brother but is sexually immoral or greedy, an idolater or a slanderer, a drunkard or a swindler. With such men do not even eat. What business is it of mine to judge those outside the church? Are not to judge those inside? God will judge those outside. Expel the wicked man from among you.”
Those are the words of the apostle Paul, from 1 Corinthians 5:11-13. As Christians, we are commanded by the Holy Bible, the very Word of God, to “expel the wicked man” from the Christian community. Any one suggesting anything less commits blasphemy.
I am truly sorry for Ray, his family, and the Christian community as a whole, but we must do as the Bible commands, and distance ourselves from him until he repents and changes his ways.
Here it is. Leviticus 20:13 states that homosexuality is an abomination. Now I’m not here to spread “hate” as it has been called. Do I believe that with this revelation he is living in sin? Yes. Do I believe it will keep him out of heaven? Yes. Do I believe that he has committed an unpardonable offense? No. Jesus says Let him without sin cast the first stone. None of us are perfect. We are more hurt by this because most of us enjoyed his ministry. I believe that with prayer from the saints, that God can and will bring him to an altar of forgiveness.
In reference to his music. The way I look at it, the music didn’t sin, the singer did. My brother sings “The Anchor Holds” with such anointing, that lives are changed. Do I feel he should quit singing it because the artist has sinned? No. I will not be purchasing the project he is working on because I feel that once you make a decision to turn your back on God, his anointing does not strive with you.
I will continue to pray for Ray Boltz, not for his success, but for the conviction of God to drive him to a place where he realizes he needs forgiveness (kinda like a Damascus road experience)
Thanks for reading
Stephen W
Isaiah 54:17 NO WEAPON!!!!!!!
All of you “True Christians” make me sick. You judge other people when your bible explicitly tells you not to, you slander a man who only wants happiness, and then after all of that you feel as if you’ve come out on top because you’ve taken the “moral high road.” If your god made someone gay and then hates him for it, your god is an arrogant sack of puss. I hope the rapture comes soon so I wont have to look at people like you who spew hate and bigotry, yet think they are doing the world a service. You people make me sick.
Although straight, I am disabled and have had to deal with a lifetime of bigotry and ignorance. It makes me sick to know that people (in this case christians) will treat each other this way merely because someone is different. And the most interesting part of it all, they do it to make themselves feel superior because they know they are petty, conceited, and disgusting creatures both inside and out. And yet, they can go to church and be given absolution for the hate they spew, all you have to do is hide behind a bible.
Disgusting.
I would be so scared to call out mighty God what the previous comenter has called him. God have mercy this person. People just need to read the word of God and you will know exactly how God feels about this issue. The bible says we will know people by the fruits they bear.
I think the interesting thing about his comment and your comment is that you both have different perceptions of God. You say “You will know people by the fruit they bear” Very true. But what I take from Azazel’s comment is that People know God (or Perceive God) by the fruit we bear. So what kind of perception about God are giving people here?
For someone to say that Christians do not understand what the Bible says about Homosexuality due to their misinterpretation of the scriptures, is ludicrous on ALL levels. HOMOSEXUALITY IS A SIN! PERIOD! No gray area, no compromise, nothing, nada. If you are gay, you are deceived and going STRAIGHT to hell! You do not pass Go, you do not collect 200 reason’s to justify it as “of the Lord”. It’s a filthy disgusting lifestyle and ANY Christian who “comes out of the closet” as Ray Boltz did, is LOST and of a reprobate mind and going STRAIGHT TO HELL.
What I said in my earlier post, I must admit, was said in anger. Anger for the fact that a man was born different, and for that difference, he is being judged and told that he will go to hell. I was born different. I have a rare form of dwarfism that has left me in incredible pain and with limited mobility. I tell you this not for sympathy, but to show that even though someone is born different, they should not be judged for it.
Ask any person who is admittedly gay and they will tell you they were born that way. Following simple logic, if he was born that way, god made him that way. There is no great conspiracy by gay people to lie to the world and falsely claim that they were born gay. It’s true. They were born gay. What I find disturbing is that they are being criticized and demonized for being born different. I’ve face ignorance and even hatred because of the way I was born. Would you hate me too simply because I’m different?
Whether it says so or not in the bible, gay people should not be mistreated because of who they are. They are people. When you stop seeing people as who they are instead of what they are, fear and hate are quick to take over. I’m disabled, but that’s not who I am, that does not define my life. The way I treat my fellow man, that’s what is important.
Gay men and women are made that way by god, whether you want to believe or not. In an age in which so many people pick and choose which bible verses they want to believe, (stoning disobedient women and children, killing idolaters and adulterers, killing those who work on the sabbath, two witnesses making an automatic conviction, etc.) put hate and ignorance aside and learn to accept that people are different and move on. Accepting something doesn’t mean you have to like it, but believing someone will spend eternity in hell because they are different is flat out hatred from the soul.
Please, learn to accept someone’s differences and move on. If you’re going to judge someone, let it be for who they are, not what they are.
Azazel
I want to say that people are not cookie cutters. Just because someone is more sensitive and emotional doesn’t mean they are gay. We are all complete in Christ and have a huge mix of personality, feelings, and abilities.
There are a lot of creative men who aren’t into sports, like drama, cry at movies, care deeply for others and enjoy social gatherings. Does that make them gay? How about women who are into sports, are a bit more forward and pragmatic? The world wants to put people into boxes and say you are this and that. They say we will be free if we admit to being a certain way.
The real freedom is to be yourself in Christ. He puts imperfect men and women together who make a life together. He knows how to put these diverse people into relationships that do honor him. We do need Him or we may begin to listen to voices that tell us we are a certain way because they are viewing it from the world’s perspective. In Christ we have freedom and we don’t have to fall into places that we know do not fall into God’s will for man.
He did make man and woman, in His image. I am sorry that folks have gotten confused. he doesn’t change and His will for us hasn’t changed. We are commanded to love everyone and not build walls but bridges. God makes the rules, not us folks. This is His creation and He knows that when we obey Him we will get the answers that have been looking for.